Comment by Rey

January 24, 2007 @ 10:13 am

The Psalms are basicaly prayers, be they of praise or petition and very often the Psalmist will pause to think about it, letting the concept sink in and affecting our mindset. Although I won’t say that that is God speaking it is grounds for being quiet and listening especially if a person prays by using the psalms. Selah.

Comment by Rong

January 24, 2007 @ 10:38 am

OK, I’ll take the bait.
The phrase that jumps out at me is:”listen to my words”.
Job 33:1
Jeremiah 19:15
Time and again God used phrases such as this when talking through the prophets.

And I believe the point you’re trying to get at is that God has already spoken to us through His word - the Bible.

I don’t believe that we are supposed to be listening, as in I’m going to have the clouds part and God’s booming voice tell me directly what to do.

I believe that we are supposed to offer up to God our prayers and that our listening is done by reflecting on God’s word, meditating on it, quieting our troubled hearts, and with discerning minds - hear his words speak to us. And, at those times when we question what he’s saying we can turn to the saints and ask for their counsel.

Comment by Brian

January 25, 2007 @ 1:41 am

Rey - I think I get what you’re saying but I’m not entirely sure. I see what you do in the Psalms - that time given to reflect on what has been said and who it has been said about. I would probably just call that meditation. Is that what you mean by “listening” or am I missing something.

Rong - Thanks for bringing those scriptures to bear. My point is not so much that God has already spoken through the scriptures(although He definitely has). It’s more that in those scriptures I can see nothing explicit which says that we should expect God to “talk” back to us in prayer.

BTW, I’m not a cessationist so I have no theological objections that would be based on that.

I’m not a theologian but what I think I would say is that God doesn’t so much “speak” to us as He does illumine who He is so that His character and glory is revealed in ways that we otherwise just could not get. And this could be through scripture, creation, etc.

Make sense?

Comment by Rong

January 26, 2007 @ 11:33 am

Yup, I believe we’re saying the same thing, and I’m not a cessationist either, though I’m very conservative in that regards.

Comment by Rey

January 31, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

Yeah Brian, I was using meditation and listening interchageably as how some people might find grounds for listening to God but I don’t know if there is a specific Biblical example besides circumstantial stuff. Like I doubt Moses expected for God to speak to him about anything and next thing he knows he’s in a conversation with I Am. I guess that’s why I’m not sold on cessationism or continualism.

Man, i sure take the middle road alot on theological stuff, huh? =)

Comment by Brian

February 1, 2007 @ 10:05 am

Man, i sure take the middle road alot on theological stuff, huh? =)

Yeah, you wimp ;-). Take a stand or something!

Seriously, thanks for your comments. I appreciate them.

Comment by Rusty

April 1, 2007 @ 9:22 am

I’m chiming in kind of late for this one, but I think it’s a very pertinent topic. I think that this notion of prayer being a two-way conversation with God, at least as typically understood in our culture, is not found in the New Testament. Certainly there are times, in both the OT and NT, in which God speaks to someone, whether verbally or not. Yet the context of these instances seem to indicate that either the person is a prophet (one chosen by God to receive special revelation) or else God has deemed it necessary to intervene into a particular situation, whether directly or indirectly (e.g., Mary, Joseph). In Acts, God communicates to believers (and, in particular, to one special non-believer - Saul).

The idea that we are having a two-way conversation with God could be a derivative of the notion that having a “personal relationship with Jesus” is equivalent to becoming a Christian. I think that our culture tends to place a heavy emphasis on the intimate personal nature of a relationship and, as such, tends to stress that aspect of what being a Christian is. It makes sense in that part of a close, personal relationship with someone involves communicating with that person, which involves two-way conversation with that person.

Now, while I don’t believe there is scriptural support for our expecting a two-way conversation within our prayer lives, that does not mean I don’t believe we have an intimate relationship with God. The Psalms were mentioned and they are indeed a good example of how one worships and communes with God, in a deeply intimate manner. Yet even within the Psalms we don’t see the practice of having a two-way conversation (in and like the manner we experience with other people). Greg Koukl mentions that perhaps the most personal and intimate relationship we can have, here on earth, is that between a husband and wife. Yet do any of us think that our relationship with God is meant to be as intimate, in the same manner, as that between spouses?