Comment by Lynn

July 7, 2007 @ 3:27 pm

Bill Gothard would say everything happens for a reason and we are going to figure out what that reason is now. I don’t think this is always possible, not by a long shot.

Lots of people say everything happens for a reason as a means of comforting those who are confused by unpleasant circumstances out of their control — reminding them that God has a good purpose for them.

Actually, the Bible does say God works all things together for good for those who love God, who are called according to His purposes.

So, in the final analysis, for believers, God does have a positive reason for what He allows in their lives.

That might not be the best thing to say, though, at the time, depending on the seriousness of the circumstances and how down a person might be feeling about them.

Comment by Rey

July 8, 2007 @ 9:17 pm

I think Lynn’s quote is on point that everything does happen for some greater positive reason and I think we can even broaden that to include more than just those who are loving God. For example, Paul says Israel is hardened (bad right?) so that salvation can be offered to the Gentiles (good right?) so that Israel can be provoked (bad right?) to jealousy (sounds pretty bad, right?) so that they would believe (well, that’s pretty darn good).

Comment by Jenn

July 9, 2007 @ 12:30 am

jlove,

I’ve been working on a response to this for quite a while now. Then I saw Brian’s last post, and I deleted everything I’ve been typing.

Lynn’s right; while it might not be the most compassionate response at any given time, I believe that, ultimately, all things happen in order to point us to Christ.

Simple, I know. Probably over-simplified, but after struggling with a response for over 15 minutes, that’s what I keep coming back to. There’s a lot more in my head about the topic, but that’s it in a nut shell for me.

So maybe - if done with the right heart and by the leading of the Spirit - it could be the most compassionate response.

Comment by Brian

July 12, 2007 @ 3:08 pm

Well, I can’t argue with the fact that everything really does happen for a reason. If you believe God is sovereign then you can’t really deny that. We could get into a big discussion about free will, what God permits vs what we he causes, etc. but ultimately I think that’s just working out technicalities - fun to think and talk about but as Lynn alluded to, not necessarily comforting for those going through tough times.

I think the desire to spin things as “positive” is a lot of motivation behind those who use this phrase. And it can be an avoidance of the really awful thing that is currently happening. But like Rey described, the ultimate end - what God is working towards - is a positive thing. That does not mean life can’t get pretty sucky in the here and now. So this pointing to a future positive outcome, while objectively true, is sometimes hard to realize in the present.

Which brings us to what Jenn said about everything pointing to Jesus. He, and his followers(2 Cor 1:3-7), can be a source of comfort now. How that all works out in a practical sense could be the subject of whole ‘nother post.

Comment by jlove

July 12, 2007 @ 4:52 pm

Good comments, Everyone.

Hmm…I have several thoughts, but I think I’ll limit it to 1 for the time being - mostly b/c I get distracted easily when I blog.

I supposed some of the issues in my head revolve around what some of the terms mean. What is implied by ‘happens’ and ‘reason’?

For me, it is a “Cause and Effect” issue. I see a difference between things happening for a reason and God working things out for the good. When I hear people say the phrase ‘Everything happens for a reason’, I ‘hear’ them saying that whatever happened was caused so that something good could happen. ‘Caused’ as opposed to allowed.

I know this could get into Sovereignty vs Free Will, but I don’t mean it to. I just see God allowing some things to happen that He turns into good things in our lives, versus causing everything (good or bad) just so He can do something good.

One example…child abuse. I guess I would say that I see God allowing it to happen vs causing it to happen. In that scenario, I believe God will use that situation to eventually demonstrate good in that person’s life; however, I don’t know that I would say He caused it just to demonstrate good.

I think this phrase is an example of how difficult it is to communicate things sometimes, just because of how differently people hear things.

I’d love to hear more about what everyone thinks about this phrase and my interpretation. Seems like we could have several posts/comments on this subject and keep the dialog going for a while.

Comment by Jenn

July 14, 2007 @ 2:09 pm

You know that long post that I deleted? I was headed in the area of what God causes vs. what God allows. I’ll wait for your next post to add my two cents worth, though. I’m looking forward to reading what you’re thinking. Don’t keep me waiting too long or I might forget my original train of thought entirely! You know me - I can lose my train of thought when I sneeze!

Comment by Brian

July 16, 2007 @ 4:04 pm

Jlove,

I think your impression is probably right about how people mean that phrase. But I honestly think a lot of them are not thinking it through. Or they’re just being sloppy with how they word things. If really pressed, I think they wouldn’t camp out on God being the primary cause behind the event in question.

I think this phrase is an example of how difficult it is to communicate things sometimes, just because of how differently people hear things.

We kind of assume that everyone’s context is the same as our’s, don’t we. I’m working on a post that may have some good examples of this. I think you might like it.

Comment by Matt Harmless

July 23, 2007 @ 6:08 am

Romans 8:28 says,

“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,”

Now if you look up the “all things” in the greek, it means, “all things” or one could say everything. So from this (and others like it) we know that God is working all things for good. (at least for those who love Him. The good that He is working though is found in the next few verses… you can read it for yourself, but the eventual point is that God is “conforming us to the image of His son.”

Now, this is just one example, there are so many others, and I know this doesn’t discuss allow or cause… but the original post said something about reason. So at least from this verse we can “know” that when things happen, God is currently working to make you more like Christ.

That is at least one reason.