Comment by Lynn

October 20, 2007 @ 8:20 pm

Wow, Brian, I don’t know if I can dissect myself so I can see if yielding to the Spirit is a kind of self-effort.

The Christian life does require effort from somewhere. It takes effort to say no to sin and turn away from it. That would be a form of yielding to the Spirit. But the NT tends to speak of it as a putting off and a putting on — put off the old man, and put on Jesus Christ. It is a command we need to obey, and obedience means we are going to exert some kind of effort and draw on some kind of strength.

These questions always tie my brain in knots.

Comment by Reon

October 21, 2007 @ 6:25 am

I always thought yielding to the Holy Spirit meant being prompted by Him to do something, and then “simply” obeying (I use the word simply loosely). It has to take an effort on our part because God doesn’t force us to respond to things a certain way, but allows us the choice. Like when I’m tempted to gossip to someone about some juicy story I’ve just heard, and I hear that little voice inside of me telling me to keep my big mouth shut, I decide whether or not to yield to that prompting by either walking away or ignoring it (not that that happens to me on a regular basis or anything; it was just an example). :o)

Is this what you’re asking about?

Comment by Rong

October 21, 2007 @ 7:59 pm

I have to say the wait was worth it.

The question then becomes - isn’t yielding just another form of self-effort? And if not then how would you classify it?

If I’m following what you’re asking then I’d have to answer in the affirmative. But I think you’re looking at the wrong question.

I may be totally off base with this but I believe the question that you needs asking is whether the action you wind up performing is being taken by the old Brian or by the new man in Christ? Are you acting out of faith or out of personal desires?

Comment by Rey

October 21, 2007 @ 10:35 pm

Within the structure of the question I don’t think that yielding would be technically considered self-effort since self-effort consists of doing and yielding consists of not-doing. For example the natural state of a car is Stopped and the unnatural state (when the gears are moving and the pedal is pressed and gas is flowing) is Moving. When you come to a sign that says “Yield to oncoming traffic” you’re not willing the Car to yield, you’re just applying the physical laws that allow it to go back to its Normal state (applying the brakes of Newtonian Physics, yadda yadda).

Be that as it may I don’t think the statement is completely accurate to our actual Christian experience (I know, I’m gonna be called a Heretic). I find that that sort of statement is usually a justification for some internal conviction that came about through various sources (be it some tradition, some emotion, some real life experience or past experiences). So I may be wanting to buy a corvette and I’m praying about it claiming the promises of Christ who says to ask anything in His name, and I’m looking at prices and talking to dealers but I’m not getting a corvette. I’ve noticed in the past that when I stop trying so hard “doors are opened” and I’m “led by the Spirit” to what is good and proper. So I stop calling up dealers and two weeks later the Corvette Dealership calls me up and says “We’re reducing our prices for you by 25%” I’ve yielded to the Spirit” and “the door has opened” and I now buy the Vette.

I don’t think I can honestly look at that example (the one I just wrote) and see that the Spirit was even involved in the situation (in so far as opening doors or what not) but loads of Christians do this sort of thing justifying their actions with that lingo.

Um, I think I went off topic somewhere by Albuquerque.

Comment by Brian

October 23, 2007 @ 4:30 pm

Thanks for the responses guys! I appreciate them and want to respond - just need to find some time. Maybe that will be later on tonight…

Comment by Brian

October 26, 2007 @ 3:45 pm

Ummm, ok, I was wrong. I’ve been battling this bug(virus) for the past several days and besides posting a few random comments here and there I just haven’t felt like giving this response the time it deserves. As soon as I can though, I will.

Comment by Brian

October 30, 2007 @ 4:11 pm

Lynn - I’ve always admired your intellectual rigor so if a question of mine ties your brain in knots then I can’t help but be a little proud of myself. The “putting off / putting on” reference is a good one for this. It does imply an effort on our part and I think ties in with Rong’s comment further down.

Reon - I’m more talking about how that power “works itself through” to be available to us as we do God’s will. I agree that “doing” is not a simple thing, but it is a simple concept and like keeping things uncomplicated. And, as much as I’m trying not to, my brain keeps back to that Nike slogan - “Just Do It”. I don’t want to analyze what that says about me…

Rong - I think we often forget that being Christians is not only about “doing” but is also about “becoming”. Your comment made me remember that we are becoming new creatures with a new nature from which to act out of. So we’re not necessarily “stepping aside” to let God flow through us. It’s more like we’re acting out of our new natures - “putting on the new man” as Lynn would say.

Rey - My only pick here is that yielding still seems to be an act of the will. My brain also hiccuped a little when I saw the word “physics” so I may not be totally getting what you’re saying here. I do appreciate the ‘vette example. I think all kinds of things get labeled as “of the Spirit” that are really just us looking for a way justify our desires. (That was left turn at Albuquerque, right?)

Taken all together, it seems that I may be pressing the “yielding” language a little too far. Although I have heard people describe almost an “out of body” experience as they tell of God working through them, this does not seem to be the norm. But it still feels like they mean more than just “doing”. But whatever… for me, keeping it more focused on how Christ is changing me and my natural wants a desires is a much safer place to be.

Jenn actually had some good thoughts on this which were inspired by Deuteronomy, of all things. Maybe she’ll feel like sharing them soon.

Comment by Jim Swindle

January 15, 2008 @ 8:39 pm

Occasionally my pastor reminds us of the dangers of both quietism (let-go-and-let-God) and pietism (do-it-all-for-God). We are to trust the Lord and do good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul wrote, “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (Philippiahs 2:12-13)

Yielding is something we do, but something we can’t do without the power of the Holy Spirit working in us.