Comment by Milly

August 4, 2008 @ 4:38 am

-”If it’s a burden to keep God’s commands, check your love levels.”

Wow this one would help me if I were struggling.

NOT!

It’s a good thing knowing what you need and don’t want.I’m praying that you find it soon and until then are blessed by others as they deliver the word.

Comment by Brian

August 4, 2008 @ 1:42 pm

For some reason, this video made me think of your post.

Comment by Jenn

August 4, 2008 @ 5:16 pm

Milly,
Your prayers are greatly appreciated.

Brian,
YOU are greatly appreciated. I seriously can’t imagine being here without U. xoxox

Comment by Milly

August 4, 2008 @ 5:46 pm

Brian and Jenn,

Ahhh now that is a bit of goodness that keeps me going, knowing that love is going on.

Comment by Rey

August 4, 2008 @ 9:03 pm

Somewhat reminds me of the time when I went to a Big Tent Revival concert and the opening band did a song with the main lyrics being something like “Heaven is like Ice Cream. Give me a scoop.”

or something.

Comment by Brian

August 5, 2008 @ 9:15 am

This is so embarrassin’….

While the video I linked to does make me think of my wonderful wife, it was quite by accident that I made a reference to it. I was trying to do too many things(like 2) at once.

This is the video that I actually meant to link to. Some of the same phrases pop up there that we heard in the sermon Jenn riffs on.

So, sorry Milly for that false sense of sentimentality when none was intended. But it wasn’t altogether misplaced.

Comment by Brian

August 5, 2008 @ 9:23 am

Rey, I’m almost scared to ask what songs that pickle video might conjure up. Maybe Larry Boy does emo, or something along those lines.

Big Tent’s a cool band though. Might have to go dig out those old CDs and give them a listen.

Comment by Kathy

August 5, 2008 @ 9:24 am

*Prayer for you*.

If I had children, part of my decision process would be thinking about whether you can put this style of presentation in perspective for them when they get old enough to sit under the teaching themselves.

In my old church, I can think of a family who has seemed to do a good job with that. We, unfortunately, did not.

The preaching in my old church was a little like what you described, in that it was not heretical, it was well-intentioned, and it was earnest and sincere. It conscientiously stuck to the Bible. It was presented by men whose lives were dedicated to Christ–something we always admired. But a steady diet of earnest injunctions to kick it up a notch for Jesus, in combination with a worship style that was increasingly foreign to us, left us running on fumes, spiritually speaking. It was so hard to choose to leave because it’s a church that is incredibly grace-focused in its approach to children and to relationships, and you know how important that is to me.

In fact we have continued to be the recipients of that basic grace-filled approach in that we have been able to retain our friendships in that church, even though there was a period of shock and difficulty with our leaving.

Comment by Milly

August 5, 2008 @ 1:37 pm

Dude you are blessed and that helps me to know that folks like you and yours is out there.

I have a single male friend out in the world who is a great guy and that help me to remember that not all of you are like Mr X.

God is with us so shine on.

Comment by Reon

August 6, 2008 @ 7:05 am

The salvation definition especially makes me scratch my head, in that my “Buddhist Christian” (yeah, I know) friend who goes to the Unitarian Church would agree with that definition, I think.

Comment by Jenn

August 6, 2008 @ 8:50 am

Brian - you are too funny. It’s a good thing I love you. And that pickle thing is just plain freaky. It’s too bad the link is stuck in the middle of these comments. I’d love to see what our readers would have to say about it if it had its own comment section!

Rey - Thanks for reminding us of BTR! We’re taking a short road trip this weekend so we’re going to have fun reminiscin’ ’bout the good ol’ days.

Kathy - Did you blog about any of your experiences while you were deciding to leave? I remember reading a couple of posts after you had made that decision, but if there are more (especially in light of what you have written here) I’d love to go back and read them. It’s such an encouragement to know someone who has come out on the other side of this without losing relationships with people. You hear lots of stories where people leave behind whole churches and move on. It’s much rarer (more rare?) to hear of someone who maintains relationships in both places.

Reon - Exactly. The salvation definition was the part I found to be most concerning. (Well, that and the communion push to “live better.”) And the thing is that it’s definitely not the first time he’s defined salvation this way. (I think it may even be in his book.)

Comment by Kathy

August 6, 2008 @ 11:00 am

Just last night I went back to my old blog on xanga.com/katiekind and realized how full of angst I was over church matters…it leaked into a lot of my posts. All of that angst and irritation is gone. I can remember what it was like. I can feel that the issues were worthwhile. But the angst is gone because I got off the fence. The one regret I have in leaving is that I can’t stop caring about that church, but I no longer have the right to have a say. If you feel called to try and help fix a problem or make a change, you do have to stay, I think.

I did not blog it directly because my main readership was my church friends and I was scared of being divisive. I did not feel right about airing anything in public unless it was something I would not mind saying to anybody and everybody.

This is a post I wrote that I did make public. A friend of mine liked it so much he read it out loud in the church’s leadership meeting, and the pastor liked it a lot and requested permission to share it with the congregation during the annual vision meeting the following Sunday.

The following Sunday the vision sermon proceeded as usual, and I couldn’t believe my story was still going to be read since it would be so out of place but somehow he found a point at which he felt my story fit in, read part of it, and then editorialized in a way that completely missed my point. I felt very sad that my boldest attempt had been taken up so wonderfully–I could hardly have hoped for a better hearing than I got–and then it was ultimately shoehorned into a new shape to serve the church vision that was making me so desperate in the first place.
That post is here: http://weblog.xanga.com/katiekind/236090862/item.html

Comment by Kathy

August 6, 2008 @ 11:36 am

As to the friendships, yes, I’ve been blessed.