Reon - I think a glass or two of white zin would make everything so much clearer. When are y’all headed this way next?

The head-covering bit most of us still do though they vary it by meetings. They don’t worry about the braids and gold as much because there’s never an additive in the Scripture like “because of the angels” which is puzzling but concering enough to wonder if it’s something outside of the cultural context. Personally I think that the use of symbols (cup, bread, water baptism, foot-washing, head covering) is something that transcends cultural background since it illustrates a theological point but I also think that this goes right into the realm of conviction.

That’s the question isn’t it? If I remember correctly, the Plymouth Brethren practice head covering, right? Is there other stuff y’all don’t practice like the “holy kiss” and do women wear braids and gold? If so, how do you decide to follow one and not the other?

Not trying to turn this around on you just so I don’t have to answer(ok, maybe a little….), but I am truly interested in how other people work these things out.

I suppose what I should have said was that most (if not all) of us have an easier time understanding God’s commandments when we are aware of what the consequences are. It’s our natural tendency to want to know why, even if we don’t have the maturity or knowledge to understand the answer we’re given. For example, I would be much more willing to obey the “No Left Turn” sign at the traffic light downtown on a two-way street with hardly ever any traffic on it if I knew WHY the ridiculous sign was there in the first place!!! I should still (probably) obey the rule regardless of my feelings on the situation. I’d just be more eager to do so if it made sense to me.

I’ve gotten off on an insignificant tangent of a much bigger issue, I realize. But just like I lay awake at night and wonder who put the bop in the bop sh-bop, sh-bop; I also wonder why wearing braids and the various and sundry related issues were wrong at some point in time and who decided that they weren’t anymore, and why. Was it God’s revelation, cultural desensitization, or something else? I don’t think I disagree that such things don’t have to be taken literally. I just can’t give an informed reason as to why.

Brian: And like a lot of these that we’ve been asking I have a suspicion that someone else has asked them before us and come up with some pretty decent answers. But, I suppose it’s a good practice to work through them ourselves.

That sounds too much like work. Can’t I just have someone tell me what I believe?

Those are all good questions. And like a lot of these that we’ve been asking I have a suspicion that someone else has asked them before us and come up with some pretty decent answers. But, I suppose it’s a good practice to work through them ourselves.

Stuff like no braids or gold I can more readily see as specific to a certain situation because it is not repeated in the other letters. However, the principle of modesty, being known for your good works, not drawing undue attention to yourself - those I see throughout scripture.

Still not a hard and fast science but I think keeping stuff like that in mind helps.

“Arise fair sun and kill the envious moon…..” Ooooh, that would be ugly.

So when you say factually acurate it’s not necessarily wrong perse but taking license? IE: exageration? Cultural references such as Ezekiel’s “Make noise. Perhaps your gods are sleeping.” when there are in fact no gods?

Well, kinda, but a bit stronger than your example. I think Ezekiel knew that there were no gods and was having a little fun with the boys. In my hypothetical example the Psalmists actually doesn’t know the nature of the stars. I can’t think of an actual example like this from the scriptures - perhaps because there’s not one. So, this could be just an intellectal exercise to hash out our idea of the nature of inspiration.

There’s no point in following the rule anyway if we don’t know the relevance of the application.

As a parent, I often expect my children to obey me simply because I know and understand more about the consequences of their actions. I see a bigger picture than they do. I could see this same principle carrying over to our heavenly Father. He does know more and sees The Big Picture. I, as the child with a limited perspective, sometimes need to simply (as the old hymn says) trust and obey. And maybe that simple obedience will lead me to a place where I am capable of understanding more.

Like I said, I really do agree with most of what you said and you brought up some stuff I need to think more about. Just wanted to clarify that one point even though Brian would call me “tangential.”

I suppose what we have to have an understanding of (which I don’t) is what the principles of those practices were. There’s no point in following the rule anyway if we don’t know the relevance of the application. Once we know the principles behind the concepts, then we can determine how it should be played out in the 21st Century. Right? Does my rambling make sense to anyone else but me?

Reminds me of the story of the woman who always cut off the ends of her roast before she put it in the pan to bake. One day her husband asked her why she did that, and she said, “Because that’s what my mother always did.” So the husband went to his Mother-in-Law and asked her why she cut off the ends of her roast, and she replied, “That’s what my mother always did.” So the husband went to the grandmother and asked her the same question. The grandmother replied, “So it’ll fit in my pan.”

I’m going out on a limb here, but Paul’s (and others’) guidelines for Godly living may have had to do with things very specific to that time, and they’re simply not issues anymore. We’ve got a bigger “pan” now. Obviously, one would have to have a pretty deep understanding of the Jewish culture in the 1st century to answer those questions. Unfortunately, that is not me, so that’s all I have to say about that.

But for the wooden reading, heck I know people who read Shakespeare like that. It’s almost reading comprehension needs some bar raising. heh.

Determinists might argue that God is completely capable of making the individual put down his exact words and completely leaving the humaness intact and in that frameset I could see questions arising.

So when you say factually acurate it’s not necessarily wrong perse but taking license? IE: exageration? Cultural references such as Ezekiel’s “Make noise. Perhaps your gods are sleeping.” when there are in fact no gods?